together. We didn’t know what we were doing and

we still don’t, but we keep going. The business was

in printing. It was a distributorship and it was part

of a franchise.

One of my printers had a sign in his office window.

It was one of those laser wood things, a 19th century

ship, in full sail, and underneath it said,

“Ships are safe in the harbor, but that’s not what

ships are for.”

If there’s one point that helped me understand

why I finally had to get out of corporate America,

it’s that I was safe in corporate Chicago, but that’s

not my remaining life’s work.

I had it all and it came to mean absolutely nothing.

I wanted to move; I wanted to live out West. I’d

always wanted to live out West and now I do. I had

to leave corporate America in order to survive.

up at four o’clock in the morning and I literally wonder,

‘What the heck are you doing?’ The only thing

that keeps me going is: ‘You could stop. And then

what? That’s not what you’re meant to do.’

Many people live their lives safe along the shore.

There’s nothing wrong with that way of living. I just

can’t do that.

Other people think, ‘Well, you’re just wild-eyed

radicals, you entrepreneurs.’ No, we’re not. We’ll do

our homework, we’ll do our research, and there’s a

point where we’ll accept the fact that you really can’t

see the future. The only way to get there is to go.

Otherwise, you live today and you don’t leave the

shore when you’re capable of leaving it. You either

don’t leave the shore, or you live out on the ship. It

would be nice to come into shore once in a while.

It’s not about Marion; it’s not about Authentic

Voices Productions. It’s about getting the stories. If we

don’t get our own stories, no one else is going to.

Sally does a professional interview wrap-up here

by linking her closing questions back to the opening

“…fear” that I face every day. A fear my Mother would

have respected.  

RV because they’re unique. There’s a strength within

them—a strength they may not see themselves.

think a lot of people would say that about her, but

she was strong. She was a military wife.

It was my mother who put us on a train and took

us out from Tennessee to New York City to get on

a ship. We went down the East Coast through the

Panama Canal up to San Francisco, where we picked

up the rest of the military families and sailed to

Japan. We were on board ship for twenty-some odd

days. She loved it. She was a very strong woman.

Sally: Do you think you got your strength from her? In part?

But she wasn’t a foolish woman; she had rules and you followed them.

But it’s the feeling and the empathy about me that

people react to that I think comes from my mother.

If you view that as a strength—and I guess you

would—yes, then definitely.

community is, because when you grow up like I did,

you have absolutely no sense of ethnic groups. I say

this to people all the time and they laugh at me, but

it’s true. I have to be told, “That person‘s Jewish, that

person’s Polish, that person’s Italian.”

Sally: As if it should matter.

And it’s not always in a negative context. That ethnic

richness—I don’t have that in my background.

So when I got into the RV world, I realized there’s

a community there. Ruth Silver talks about that in her

interview and she has a lot more experience. I began

to realize, ‘You know, I’m missing something. I’m not

part of something.’ Out here in Phoenix that’s one

of the major negatives; everybody lives behind their

walls and they’re all from some other place.

So the sense of community became critical to me.

But ironically enough, the community for me came

back to the RV world. I couldn’t let those stories go.

There was a need for the audio and book to include a

Narrator’s role that connected these Women Who RV

voices. Sally’s interview with me was one of the last things

she had to finish before she and Jan hit the rving road.

But somehow, when you asked what was the awakening,

you got me thinking. I feel that I’m very much

awake and alive at this point in my life.

It’s because I’m aware and awake and rekindled

and concerned. I know it’s not forever. I also know

there will be an end. I don’t know how the end will

be, but it’s going to be a good time.

We cannot be alone. You have to relate to

something, someone, some place, somehow. And if

you have no sense of relatedness, there’s no community.

Community is the thing that makes you

alive. Community is what enriches you. Your connection

to the outside world is where you become who you are.

Ruth’s voice and comments were THE key catalysts

to produce both an audio and book version of these

Women Who RV interviews. “We cannot be alone…”

gracefully guided this effort to a far more universal

voice for all listeners and readers. 

72 when I first started RVing. We bought a ¾-ton

truck called a Silverado. I remember that well.

The trailer was a 28-footer fifth wheel. It had a

wonderful back bedroom. It had high windows in

the bedroom, so I thought, ‘Wouldn’t it be wonderful

if I lined the side walls with these wire bookracks?’

I lined the whole thing with bookracks because we

needed to travel with our books.

Shortly thereafter the transmission went out on

the truck. We had it replaced, thinking, ‘Well, that’s

too bad. It’s the first terrible thing that happened.’

The mechanics put in a rebuilt transmission and

we traveled another 500 miles or so before the same

thing happened again.

The second time, the mechanics said, “The first

mechanics put in a faulty rebuilt transmission. We’ll

put another one in and you’ll be fine.”

We got to Pensacola, Florida and absolutely

broke down a third time. The new mechanics said,

anyone asked. I said, “A house of books,” and they

responded, “You need a one-ton truck to pull what

you’re pulling.”

We thought, ‘Maybe we ought to get rid of some

of the books.’ But then we thought, ‘No. I’d rather get

a different truck than get rid of books. Those books

are very valuable.’ They were very important to us

for our research.

We had a little publication about all the women’s

various communities that were beginning at that

time. We wanted to visit them and see what they

looked like and what they were all about.

We were on our way down to visit some people

we knew in Florida. When we got down there, it

was the first time we had seen an RV community

in operation.

It was couples from all over and I suddenly realized,

‘Now here’s another kind of community that

creates itself.’ These men and women had been coming

for ten to fifteen years. Every single year they’d

come, the same group of people, and they were very

fast friends.

They came from different places in the United

States and at the end of the season they would go

back to their various places. They couldn’t wait until

the next year to come back and be a part of that RV

community again.

 That’s when I became much more conscious of the

importance of community and how important people

are in our lives.

Ruth’s original interview was recorded with a poor

quality microphone. Despite professional audio editing,

I was forced to re-record her voice with a new microphone.

We decided she would read the edited transcript at her pace

and with her natural inflections. It is here that Ruth first

introduces the sense of “…community.” A real concern for

Zoe when she began rving in the mid-eighties.

we adopted from some opera-singing friends of ours,

hence where she got her name. She’s fifteen or so,

and a snowshoe cat. She’s very shy. There’s Rosie, the

kitten’s name—we call her Rosie for short. Her full

name is Rosalia Yaquicita Guadalupita.

We found Sunny, our dog, after our first time

RVing. We were visiting my parents in Newport,

Washington. At that time, we were living down south

of Tucson, so we just carted her out of the Northwest.

She was a mix of a Chow and something else.

She loved to RV. She had a great time and she was

a wonderful dog. She was a protector. She looked very

ferocious and sounded ferocious, but as far as we

know she never bit anyone. She was my best friend

for pretty near seventeen years.

when we had the fifth wheel. It’s not much different

from what we’re doing with the motorhome.

could move pretty fast if we had to, I think.

to the front. You can pull up chock, so to speak, and

drive off.

have, and going down the road.

lot. We try to think ahead and plan what we’re

going to do. Only then do we go ahead and do it. If

we find that conditions aren’t safe, we would just

keep driving.

long after we stopped RVing in ‘94/’95, I started

studying Buddhism. It was that journey that I began

then, which is still ongoing, that is driving this experience

right now.

It’s all about, for me, reaching the point of not

being attached. I feel so light I could fly. I am so

glad to be rid of that stuff. It’s a whole different

ballgame. It’s about just living in the moment where

you are, with who you are, and that’s pretty much

what’s making me so excited about RVing.

Web site and hear this and have any idea they want

to travel, then I think your stories will show them

that they can do anything they want.

Voice concept: that some people’s stories are very

exciting and meaningful, not just to them but to other

could be excited about something else someone else

is doing, and that those individuals and their stories

could have an impact on many people.

Sally: I don’t think it was the military experience for me.

Granted, I moved around a lot. For me, it is not wanting

to be permanent. I mean nothing’s permanent in

life so why should we be permanent? Why should our

location be permanent? There are too many things to

see, too many places to go, too many people to meet,

too many new experiences to have to sit in one place

and be married to our house full of stuff.

artwork, our books, some CDs. And, of course, our

computers.

I’ve met here in Phoenix. But you know, if I put it in

the context of experience, it has to be my experience

at Guadalupe, Arizona and that’s sort of at the end

of our time here.

I worked as a counselor with the Yaqui Nation

for two years in Guadalupe. It was mind-boggling

and it was probably—it’s hard to say—the richest

experience I’ve had maybe in my whole life.

It’s hard to put into words. It’s about being a

minority in a culture you know nothing about.

I was the minority in that culture; learning how

to appreciate and respect a culture that I might

one day, many years ago, have felt superior to. It’s

humbling and it’s wonderful at the same time. It’s

getting to know how a whole different culture of

people survives in this society. It’s an amazing thing.

I loved it.

for a year and a half. I was a docent and received

quite a bit of training. The Heard Museum is one of

the most famous institutions for Native Americans,

and it promotes the understanding and appreciation

for Native American culture and artwork. I did that

for five years, and that experience was very enriching

for me too. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

decided I had to have. I’ve had them for so long and

haven’t yet read them. I want to read them. Besides

that, for me, the only other thing I kept is a glass

much it. Oh, and my meditation bell.

 Jan: And the cats. We just had to have the cats with us.

 Notice with this episode and the next that my voice has

been edited out completely.

this thing was longer than forty feet: motorhome/bus

conversion. Anyway, it came driving up behind me

and I got so excited. I said, “Oh my gosh! We gotta

do this!” So here we are.

and looked at trucks. Well, we’ve had a truck. We

had a Dodge Dually that could pull anything with

a Cummins engine. We thought, ‘Do we really want

to go that route?’

we’re older now. We loved the fifth wheel and we

loved the pick-up, but you have to do a lot more stuff.

You have to hook it up, un-hook it, and level it, and

those are things that motorhomes do for themselves.

You push a button, it gets level. It’s self-contained and

is easy to drive for Jan, who’s a bus driver. We like it.

It’s easier to park.

Sally: Right. I remember that.

I know about. You’ve got to pick two more.

Jan: The levelers and I would say the engine retarder.

Marion: What’s that?

down the engine. There’s a back pressure so when you

go down a hill, you use your brakes and the retarder.

It helps hold you back. The third thing I think is probably

the mirror adjusters.

Marion: What did your family and friends think?

when we left. I don’t think they thought anything

good, bad, or indifferent about it. I remember my

mother was sad when we pulled out but that’s beause

we hadn’t been home in awhile.

Jan: My parents thought I was crazy.

Marion: One of the things that intrigues me about RVing is the

in the first eighteen years before college. Then I joined

the Marine Corps and moved more after college.

The starting something new, the having new experiences,

the breaking of old patterns.

 Notice the improved sound quality as the remaining

interviews were recorded in the Phoenix area with  

a computer connected microphone.

We went online and looked at what they were like.

We thought, ‘Things have changed since we did that.’

Then we were with a friend and talking about RVing.

She said, “What did you like about it when you were

doing it?”

We started talking. We really liked RVing. Why

did we quit? We started talking about maybe doing it

again and we said, “We’re a lot older now.” She said,

“Well, if not now, when?”

And we said, “Yes, if not now, when?” So then

we went and started looking at the different RVs. We

found that since we were older, we couldn’t do a lot of

the physical stuff we used to do. We also discovered

that RVs were so much more convenient. It’s all push

buttons for everything now. So we thought, ‘Well, we

can do this, and this is what we want to do.’

We thought we were unique at our age. Then we

went to the National RVW Convention in Wyoming.

There were at least three women over 80 years old

who were traveling by themselves in big rigs and

thinking of getting a new one. So we thought, ‘We’re

not so smart after all.’

It has really added to our lives. I feel good about having

helped to start a place where women could be

themselves and become what they wanted to be.

Marion: You are about empowering women?

Lovern: It’s been important to me, yes.

you’d call them mentors—mostly they just said, “Why

don’t you do this? You can do it.” Oh, okay.

Just like a woman I taught with when I was a

teacher’s aid. She said “Why don’t you go back to

school and get your teaching degree?” I said, “Well,

I thought about it for a long time, but I’d be 40 years

old when I’m done.”

She said, “So what? You can teach for another 25

years, and that’s enough time for anybody.” I’ve been

very happy that I took her advice and I did it.

Zoe and I realized that even though we had a

wonderful home, we missed full-time RVing. So

we sold this home and everything in it and bought

another RV.

We had stopped RVing only because we had

started the parks, and now we were back on the road

again. We were older, but thankfully there have been

major improvements since 1986 and everything on

the new rig was much easier with push buttons for

everything.

wanted to be in the RV. So I said, “I’m going to go

sleep out there.”

she was not going to pack and unpack it and have

a house. That was fine with me. We would go with

what we had in the RV. We had two weekends of

garage sales and sold everything. That process was

very freeing, too; getting rid of so many things that

you’ve collected in your life.

isnt it? Everybody’s in debt. We don’t need all

that stuff. We don’t need all that room. When you

travel all over the world, you see how little space

most people in the world live in.

Lovern: That’s right.

bother them and I don’t remember any reaction from

my family.

community and had been officers in an organization

there.

and take off. I mean if you live your life by what other

people think ….

Marion: You wouldn’t have done it.

Lovern: No.

seven years in the college and I was eligible for sabbatical.

I had done my dissertation on Multicultural

Education in U.S. higher education. I was interested

in how Europe had approached this topic. They

approached it differently. Their workers that came

in from other countries were assumed to be going

back to their country eventually.

So they taught foreign workers their own languages

and all their cultural aspects. In our schools

at that time, we were trying to make foreign workers

become little Americans. I was curious about

the Europeans’ system.

I was in my little house. It was actually a 900-yearold

house in this little tiny French village. Zoe and I

were writing back and forth all the time, and sometimes

calling.

She wrote me that she’d gone to this RV show

and felt compelled to do so. She fell in love with the

Born Free and ordered it. It called to her, Zoe, and

she wanted it. That kind of surprised me because she

always said she didn’t like to pack and unpack. But

obviously that’s what she wanted to do now.

‘Well, that’s a long way from Iowa to Washington

State.’ Once we got there we went through the factory.

I saw that the Born Free was a very nice unit.

It was only 23-feet long, so it was small enough

that we could stop just about anywhere. I enjoyed

the drive back. It was very freeing. By the time we

got back, I was enjoying the RV.

Marion: What do you mean by freeing?

you want to go. You can do what you want to

do, and go where you want to go.

I should qualify that we had rented a van camper

one Christmas and gone up to Vancouver Island in

it. We had enjoyed that experience even though we

found out later the camper had bald tires. But we had

a grand time in that van.

Note: Lovern’s original interview was delayed due to

back surgery. A recovery challenge given the height

of the steps into her diesel motorhome…